Do to the number of comments and the amount of conversations that accumulated from my last post about worship and worship leaders (check below if you missed it), I would like to explore and open up the floor  for a discussion bout discipleship in the church. To see, learn and hear what this means to you. 

I think the conversation must start here:

Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. Matthew 28:16-20

I think the conversation starts best here, because many people have a broad interpretation of the word “disciple”. It was Jesus’ command to make them, yet it seems as if it’s the hardest thing for us to do. We have many methods, programs, and ideas but I wonder often if they are truly working.

Clear Disclaimer: I do not have the perfect answer, but do have thoughts which I will share as the conversation begins. 

So what would be your interpretation of the word “disciple”? 

Does the church do this well?

What does this look like in in the church?

Can it be done through a church program?

Are your methods truly working?

Is it the churches job or those who make up the church?

What does  a successful “disciple” look?

Are you personally doing this?  How?

*to join the conversation click on the comments tab at the top of the post.

In following up to my recent post (HERE) and all the conversations taking place yesterday, I want to begin to describe what I believe the role of the… shall we say for now; “Worship Leader” should be. 

I say the term “worship leader” lightly because I have begun to believe that the so called “titles” we give to certain areas at one point and time meant something different, or became the norm without actually realizing the picture it created. Most churches automatically believe that they need a “worship pastor”, because thats what the church is supposed to look like. At least all the new ones today think that way. You know, the guy with the best voice, who may not be able to actually shepherd and lead… but at least he sounds good! I find that many churches have often quoted Craig Groeschel;

“if you want to reach people no one is reaching, you have to be willing to do things no one is doing”

So why are we all doing the same thing? Do you need to have a “worship pastor”? Is it just because it’s what every other church has? (Stay with me) I have one friend Ellis Prince  who has recently planted Gallery Church Baltimore. Guess what? With no “worship pastor”! Crazy isn’t it? Step into his city and his culture and you will find out why. Most would think there is no way he could be successful. You can’t have church without a music dude? Until you find that he’s doing something most aren’t willing to do… to reach a city and people that most aren’t willing to reach. 

See it wasn’t always the way we now know it. When I grew up we had a “choir director” & “music director”. Heck, I remember back when my Grandfather was a preacher and he was the one who led the congregation in music himself… Grandma played the piano. I remember when my “youth pastor” was the one who led us in worship. (scary!)  See the concept of a “worship pastor” has only been around for 2-3 decades. With a special thanks to Al Denson! Then in the 90’s a movement began… Hillsong, Passion, and the list goes on. Soon the church wanted that type of “worship” incorporated into their service. None of this was bad or wrong, it actually created a much more engaging type of “worship” environment. I love it and don’t want to see it change!

But here is what I think –  Yes, I, which means it is flawed because it’s my thinking. No I don’t have it all figured out yet… but here is my attempt as I explore this more. 

I think the title of “worship leader/pastor” has actually confused us all. You see most preach that “worship” is more than just singing, it’s a lifestyle. (At least I hope they do) So the question becomes; why do we title one person a “worship pastor/leader”? Especially the guy who does all the singing? Some churches have tried to get creative – even started naming the “worship leader” different things… (Creative Pastor, Architect, Pastor of arts, etc.)  Still I think we miss the point, because we still treat the poisition the same. The point being that we are all “Worship Pastors/Leaders”, not just one person. 

The problem when we do this is that we departmentalize things and confine it to “worship pastor” = singer/musician/program dude. That means “Lead Pastor” gets his part of the service ready and “worship pastor” gets his ready. They may attempt to meet once a week, but it’s a feeble attempt compared to the togetherness that is needed, to be united as you shepherd a flock. Sunday comes and we stand to “worship”… and sit down to be taught? Isn’t it all worship? Isn’t your entire gathering one full moment of worship together as the body?

I’ve got a theory… if the “other guy” on stage is leading a portion of the service that is almost equal to the time the “Lead Pastor” is on stage, then isn’t he just as much a Pastor/Shepherd as the other? Shouldn’t he be helping guide and lead the people to the scriptures, or creating a way for the body to respond out of revelation from it? Shouldn’t he be just as engulfed in the entire moment of “worship” as the “lead” guy? 

If you say “yes”, then how can any of this happen to those whom you pay to just hop in and out of your service from week to week? For that fact, how can one “worship leader” become any of this if he is not willing to commit to your local body? How can any of this take place if the “worship leader/pastor” doesn’t see this either, and spends most of his time in the green room until it’s his turn to do his thing? (see last post on this thought)

If you say “no”, you don’t see any of this…. then what you have created is a “music guy” whom you call “worship leader/pastor”, which confuses your people when every week you say before them… “lets stand to worship”, “but ‘worship’ is more than singing”.

Confused yet?  

Do I believe in “Worship Pastors”? Yes – maybe just not the title.

I am for paying another Shepherd who helps in this area. However, I am not for paying someone who wants to just be a “worship dude” (music guy) or band players who say they are skilled in a certain instrument and only play if they get paid. I want a shepherd. I want to be so connected with the “worship pastor/shepherd” that as a tandem and team we lead, guide and shepherd our flock in such a way that the entire gathering is experienced as one “worship” moment.  That’s why I believe this is so important. It’s not what the next generation is being discipled to become, nor what is being expected of them. This takes time, a lot of it. Something most of us don’t think we have because we spend too much time bouncing from idea to idea and just need people to make it look good. I want my flock to view my team as Pastors first. You can’t send that message if you just hire out band guys who say they are “worship leaders” traveling around from week to week. You’re just paying guys to give you what everyone else is doing around you. You miss the shepherding part, and I think it sends a very confusing message. 

Some would say this its impossible. Some will automatically question pay levels. Some will disregard this for a top down org chart approach. Some will get hung up on the correct title. (Which is totally different from a job description) People can know their job description in many other forms than just through a title. Some will just shrug this all off. That’s fine. I believe that’s why all your meetings will always be approached in segments and departments, instead of moments and movements. Thats why you will spend most of the service critiquing the “music guy”, because that’s all his job is about in your thinking. 

Yes, God has called the “leader” and will speak clearly to him on how to guide and cast vision. Yes, the leader needs to go before God to find out what he is to bring before the flock. Do not forget however, that for every Moses there was as equally important an Aaron and even later a Joshua to take over. I think we often forget how much of a team they were. That’s why the “worship leader” is more important than just some dude who can play music. It’s more important to figure out why we are having one for our church first, and not just because it’s what every one else is doing. 

So I do still ask; “Where have all the Cowboys/Worship Leaders gone?” Yet, equally I ask; are we helping or hurting all this in our way of doing church and in our own philosophy of what a “worship pastor” is?

Will I have a “worship leader”?

Yes! A few of them actually… some  of them just might happen to be gifted and talented in the area of music.

*Next week lets explore the topic of Discipleship !

*Disclaimer – not for lead worship SHEPHERDS, who do this for a living. Not targeted at a certain person or certain church. Simply my PERSONAL observation as a student pastor, young adults pastor and now church planter. 

I grew up watching cowboy movies. I loved the scenes of them riding into town, guns drawn, horses kicking up dust, good guy vs. bad guy…  Tombstone (not old, but classic) pops in my mind first! What a great movie. There was something about the setting, story and plot that just sucked me in. I often noticed something though… always seemed as if the clan grew bigger and stronger the higher the bounty, or higher the reward. Other cowboys just showed up in town for the reward and they often seemed like minimal extras compared to those main characters who were ready to fight and take on justice because it was just part of their soul. Why would I start out a post on Worship Leaders with an anology of the “Wild Wild West”? Because I see the same situation arising all around us. Seems to me that there are more “worship leaders” today then ever before and for most (not all) they only join a clan when the “bounty” is raised or in this case a paycheck is to be given. Gone are the days when those skilled in the arts of music gave of their talent to help engage the church in shall we call it… songs of praise?Problem is that now its filled with a younger generation of “cowboys” who stand by the code of: “if you pay me I’ll be there, if not we ride off into the sunset to the next town and claim our reward”. I have recently observed this movement first hand and from afar. You know the setting… the town/green room is for the cowboy/star who waits until his showdown with gun/water bottle in hand to come lead people to worship. There’s not much interest in what is actually happening in the town from this group, because they don’t really belong there. Their just in town mostly to receive the bounty because it’s their “profession” and then return back home when the time allows. I know deep inside they love worship, but it doesn’t quite seem that way from an observation stand point. Seems more like a group of guys who got a little too excited with Rock Band and figured the best stage would be in front of youth groups, or churches as they traveled from town to town, or church to church. 

 I have heard all the arguments: “This is their skill and they get paid for it, they are professionals”. Seems kind of funny that as a skilled or professional musician/singer, they only use it in churches to get a pay check. If it was their profession, then why aren’t they doing it every other day of the week? I’ve heard the arguments of paying them for all the extra time they put in, but what about the volunteer down in children’s ministry? You know the one who comes in during the week day after day to help get the materials and crafts together for the children, so the parents can attend the worship? 

 So we go back to the only argument: “well they are skilled professionals”. To that I ask; what about the skilled/pro carpenter who comes to build all the sets for each Sunday? What about the professional traffic manager who helps lead and guide your parking crew every week? What about the person who works all week helping set up and tear down exhibits in your town center for a living, then shows up each week at 5:00 am to help you do the same? Are they not professionals at what they do? They do that more than once a week. I’m a 100% for appreciation or a special thank you, gift cards, gifts, etc. Pay for a special event? Sure, but that’s something different than what I am addressing. 

 This is about those who see Sunday as their profession, with no training, no real commitment, not involvement to the town they are actually in unless there is a paycheck to be awarded. Why is it that if they aren’t playing that week, then it’s their week off? Is it a gig, or who they are? I was recently told of a young, single man making $500 a Sunday to sing? Who wouldn’t want to make $2,000 a month singing one day a week? I know full well that he had to lead practice. I’d still do it for two days a week.

If it’s what they are “supposed” to do, then lets help them find a local church, root themselves there and play an active part in it. 

It’s not the price that really matters, it’s the philosophy. I believe the problem lies in the philosophy of our productions. We think that the “Sunday showdown” has to be at such a high level, that it can only be resolved by offering a reward/paycheck. This philosophy and thinking is trickling down to the younger generation quicker than most of us want to acknowledge. This younger generation is seeing their “rock band” careers as worship leaders before they ever leave high school. Why not? There’s money, CD sales, green rooms, and lots of people jumping around in front of them. There is a growing vacancy within the church of it’s members who could help engage the body in worship because they have left and are somewhere else on Sunday getting a “reward”. 

 I know it wasn’t always that way, and it’s not that way everywhere. There are still a few of those ”older cowboys” who still live by some type of code or should we say “law of the land”. The ones who believe in offering up their talent/skill/gift in an understanding that they are part of the body and this is what they bring to it. They believe in their clan and town, and at all costs give up themselves for it. No reward needed or taken. It’s who they are, what they believe in, and what they do. Their the committed, their the “good old boys”.  

The growing problem is that there are only a few good cowboys left. The rest have set off into the sunset to claim their prize. We now find a younger generation who is watching and following in the footsteps of those before them. 

Which now begs the questions… when is someone going to change it? Who is going to at least question it, to wrestle with the effects taking place? They are not a departmentalized part of a service. Something just to help the program be better. If they spend half the time on stage as the lead communicator, then they are shepherds! Maybe that’s the bigger problem? Maybe it’s the role of a “worship leader” that is confusing?

I write this not because I have all the answers, but because I’m concerned about the results. It leaves me often wondering… where have all the “worship leaders” gone?

I am just finished and created my new blog.  Click here (http://timgrandstaff.wordpress.com) to get to the old site for archive articles and stories. 

Thanks